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References: <53AA8C2C.30507@fjfi.cvut.cz> <CAKmn6J02y0RTj6HGr29CfA_bHObYyzvoer1vjwkeyB9dD8N3uA@mail.gmail.com>
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From: Tomas Markovic <markovic6453@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 14:42:32 +0200
Message-ID: <CAKmn6J24t0fN9G9diV4FrahHNsHJVYBeQ6wJJa8F0nrQTpvUTQ@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tokamak GOLEM] zajimavy vliv stabilizace na pruraz
To: Vojtech Svoboda <svoboda@fjfi.cvut.cz>, <tokamak@golem.fjfi.cvut.cz>
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Zdravim,

z toho co je videt na:
http://golem.fjfi.cvut.cz/utils/golplot?action=3DPlot+All&shotno_0=3D16154&=
diagn_0=3Dloop_voltage&shotno_1=3D16153&diagn_1=3Dloop_voltage
a z toho co mi bylo receno o stabilizaci, tak ja to osobne vidim takhle:

Kdyz se podivame na odkaz nahore (srovnani Uloop), tak vidime 2 skoky
napeti. Ty podle mne reprezentuji derivaci stabilizacniho pole - jednak
odpovidaji momentum kdy bylo DC magneticke pole sepnuto a odpojeno a
geometrie U_loop zavitu umoznuje detekci pole z horniho stabilizacniho
vinuti na LFS.

Plazma ma tendence se generovat ve spodni casti komory a pak behem vyboje
pomalu driftovat do horni casti komory. Pole vertikalni stabilizace se
tudiz normalne orientuje tak, aby zatlacovalo plazma dolu. Pruraz se
odehral teprv pote, co stabilizace skoncila. To mne vede k presvedceni, ze
vlivem toho ze elektrony byly po uvolneni z obalu hned tlaceny na komoru,
byla jejich draha moc kratka na to aby mohly ucinne ionizovat. Pote co pole
zmizelo se situace oproti standardnimu vyboji lisila tim, ze elektrony
najednou videli vyssi elektricke pole (vyssi Uloop viz graf nahore), nez u
jakeho dochazi k ionizaci. To mohlo mit efekt na to ze vyboj byl pak jiny.

Tudiz je mozne, ze kdyby se obratila polarita stabilizacniho proudu, tak
naopak by pruraz snad mohl nastat naopak driv a take ve stredu (nebo
nahore) komory... Za pokus by to mohlo stat a experimentalne narocne to
take neni.

T.


Dne 26. =C4=8Dervna 2014 13:28 Vojtech Svoboda <svoboda@fjfi.cvut.cz> napsa=
l(a):

>  Ahoj Tome, vertikalni stabilizace byla sepnuta v 15ms na 3ms. Tj. konci
> v 18 ms.
> Jde to videt zde:
> http://golem.fjfi.cvut.cz/shots/16153/DAS/0513NIturbo_RT.ON/
> kanal 3.
>
> Slo tam cca 250 A.
>
>                                         Vojta
>
>
>
>
> On 06/26/2014 01:07 PM, Tomas Markovic wrote:
>
> Dotaz - mohlo by se presneji uvest ve kterem okamihu byla sepnuta
> stabilizace? A jake stabilizacne vinuti bylo pouzito?
>
>  T.
>
>
>  Dne 25. =C4=8Dervna 2014 10:45 Vojtech Svoboda <svoboda@fjfi.cvut.cz>
> napsal(a):
>
>> Zdravim priznivce tokamaku GOLEM,
>>
>> dneska jsme tu s Borkem objevili podle mne velmi zajimavou vec.
>>
>> Nahodou/nechtene jsme pustili stabilizaci na dobu, kdy melo vzniknout
>> plazma -  a ejhle, dostali jsme uplne jiny rezim prurazu - zpozdeny, ale
>> /mam pocit/ velmi kvalitni.
>>
>> Bez stabilizace:
>> http://golem.fjfi.cvut.cz/shots/16154/
>> Se stabilizaci:
>> http://golem.fjfi.cvut.cz/shots/16153/
>>
>> Srovnani prurazu z napeti na zavit jde videt zde:
>>
>> http://golem.fjfi.cvut.cz/utils/golplot?action=3DPlot+All&shotno_0=3D161=
54&diagn_0=3Dloop_voltage&shotno_1=3D16153&diagn_1=3Dloop_voltage
>>
>>
>> Kdyz se podivate na obrazky z kamery, tak jde videt, ze se u 153
>> (
>> http://golem.fjfi.cvut.cz/shots/16153/diagnostics/Radiation/0211FastCame=
ra.ON/
>> )
>> podarilo zapalit plazma v centru, zatimco bezne, viz 154
>> (
>> http://golem.fjfi.cvut.cz/shots/16154/diagnostics/Radiation/0211FastCame=
ra.ON/
>> ),
>> nam plazma vznika nekde dole a mozna se tre o steny a pruraz neni
>> kvalitni.
>>
>> Je to reprodukovatelne ..
>>
>> Prijde mi, ze to je neco, co by se melo podrobit dalsimu zkoumani
>> (Jindro, mozna Jakube ..).
>>
>>                                                     Mejte se a zdravim,
>> Vojtech Svoboda
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tokamak mailing list
>> Tokamak@golem.fjfi.cvut.cz
>> http://golem.fjfi.cvut.cz/mailman/listinfo/tokamak
>>
>
>
>
>  --
> Tomas
>
>
>


--=20
Tomas

--001a11c3b2c0019c6604fcbc88a8
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8"><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr"><div style=3D"">Zdravim,</div><div style=3D""><br></div><div=
 style=3D"">z toho co je videt na:</div><a href=3D"http://golem.fjfi.cvut.c=
z/utils/golplot?action=3DPlot&#43;All&amp;shotno_0=3D16154&amp;diagn_0=3Dlo=
op_voltage&amp;shotno_1=3D16153&amp;diagn_1=3Dloop_voltage">http://golem.fj=
fi.cvut.cz/utils/golplot?action=3DPlot&#43;All&amp;shotno_0=3D16154&amp;dia=
gn_0=3Dloop_voltage&amp;shotno_1=3D16153&amp;diagn_1=3Dloop_voltage</a><br>

<div style=3D"">a z toho co mi bylo receno o stabilizaci, tak ja to osobne =
vidim takhle:</div><div style=3D""><br></div><div style=3D"">Kdyz se podiva=
me na odkaz nahore (srovnani Uloop), tak vidime 2 skoky napeti. Ty podle mn=
e reprezentuji derivaci stabilizacniho pole - jednak odpovidaji momentum kd=
y bylo DC magneticke pole sepnuto a odpojeno a geometrie U_loop zavitu umoz=
nuje detekci pole z horniho stabilizacniho vinuti na LFS.</div>

<div style=3D""><br></div><div style=3D"">Plazma ma tendence se generovat v=
e spodni casti komory a pak behem vyboje pomalu driftovat do horni casti ko=
mory. Pole vertikalni stabilizace se tudiz normalne orientuje tak, aby zatl=
acovalo plazma dolu. Pruraz se odehral teprv pote, co stabilizace skoncila.=
 To mne vede k presvedceni, ze vlivem toho ze elektrony byly po uvolneni z =
obalu hned tlaceny na komoru, byla jejich draha moc kratka na to aby mohly =
ucinne ionizovat. Pote co pole zmizelo se situace oproti standardnimu vyboj=
i lisila tim, ze elektrony najednou videli vyssi elektricke pole (vyssi Ulo=
op viz graf nahore), nez u jakeho dochazi k ionizaci. To mohlo mit efekt na=
 to ze vyboj byl pak jiny.</div>

<div style=3D""><br></div><div style=3D"">Tudiz je mozne, ze kdyby se obrat=
ila polarita stabilizacniho proudu, tak naopak by pruraz snad mohl nastat n=
aopak driv a take ve stredu (nebo nahore) komory... Za pokus by to mohlo st=
at a experimentalne narocne to take neni.</div>

<div style=3D""><br></div><div style=3D"">T.</div></div><div class=3D"gmail=
_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">Dne 26. =C4=8Dervna 2014 13:28 V=
ojtech Svoboda <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:svoboda@fjfi.cvut.cz=
" target=3D"_blank">svoboda@fjfi.cvut.cz</a>&gt;</span> napsal(a):<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
 =20
   =20
 =20
  <div bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF" text=3D"#000000">
    <div>Ahoj Tome, vertikalni stabilizace byla
      sepnuta v 15ms na 3ms. Tj. konci v 18 ms.<br>
      Jde to videt zde:<br>
      <a href=3D"http://golem.fjfi.cvut.cz/shots/16153/DAS/0513NIturbo_RT.O=
N/" target=3D"_blank">http://golem.fjfi.cvut.cz/shots/16153/DAS/0513NIturbo=
_RT.ON/</a><br>
      kanal 3.<br>
      <br>
      Slo tam cca 250 A.<br>
      <br>
      &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Vojta<div><div class=3D"h5"><=
br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <br>
      On 06/26/2014 01:07 PM, Tomas Markovic wrote:<br>
    </div></div></div><div><div class=3D"h5">
    <blockquote type=3D"cite">
     =20
      <div dir=3D"ltr">Dotaz - mohlo by se presneji uvest ve kterem
        okamihu byla sepnuta stabilizace? A jake stabilizacne vinuti
        bylo pouzito?
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>T.</div>
      </div>
      <div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
        <br>
        <div class=3D"gmail_quote">
          Dne 25. =C4=8Dervna 2014 10:45 Vojtech Svoboda <span dir=3D"ltr">=
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:svoboda@fjfi.cvut.cz" target=3D"_blank">svoboda@fjfi.=
cvut.cz</a>&gt;</span>
          napsal(a):<br>
          <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bord=
er-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            Zdravim priznivce tokamaku GOLEM,<br>
            <br>
            dneska jsme tu s Borkem objevili podle mne velmi zajimavou
            vec.<br>
            <br>
            Nahodou/nechtene jsme pustili stabilizaci na dobu, kdy melo
            vzniknout<br>
            plazma - &nbsp;a ejhle, dostali jsme uplne jiny rezim prurazu -
            zpozdeny, ale<br>
            /mam pocit/ velmi kvalitni.<br>
            <br>
            Bez stabilizace:<br>
            <a href=3D"http://golem.fjfi.cvut.cz/shots/16154/" target=3D"_b=
lank">http://golem.fjfi.cvut.cz/shots/16154/</a><br>
            Se stabilizaci:<br>
            <a href=3D"http://golem.fjfi.cvut.cz/shots/16153/" target=3D"_b=
lank">http://golem.fjfi.cvut.cz/shots/16153/</a><br>
            <br>
            Srovnani prurazu z napeti na zavit jde videt zde:<br>
            <a href=3D"http://golem.fjfi.cvut.cz/utils/golplot?action=3DPlo=
t&#43;All&amp;shotno_0=3D16154&amp;diagn_0=3Dloop_voltage&amp;shotno_1=3D16=
153&amp;diagn_1=3Dloop_voltage" target=3D"_blank">http://golem.fjfi.cvut.cz=
/utils/golplot?action=3DPlot&#43;All&amp;shotno_0=3D16154&amp;diagn_0=3Dloo=
p_voltage&amp;shotno_1=3D16153&amp;diagn_1=3Dloop_voltage</a><br>


            <br>
            <br>
            Kdyz se podivate na obrazky z kamery, tak jde videt, ze se u
            153<br>
            (<a href=3D"http://golem.fjfi.cvut.cz/shots/16153/diagnostics/R=
adiation/0211FastCamera.ON/" target=3D"_blank">http://golem.fjfi.cvut.cz/sh=
ots/16153/diagnostics/Radiation/0211FastCamera.ON/</a>)<br>
            podarilo zapalit plazma v centru, zatimco bezne, viz 154<br>
            (<a href=3D"http://golem.fjfi.cvut.cz/shots/16154/diagnostics/R=
adiation/0211FastCamera.ON/" target=3D"_blank">http://golem.fjfi.cvut.cz/sh=
ots/16154/diagnostics/Radiation/0211FastCamera.ON/</a>),<br>
            nam plazma vznika nekde dole a mozna se tre o steny a pruraz
            neni kvalitni.<br>
            <br>
            Je to reprodukovatelne ..<br>
            <br>
            Prijde mi, ze to je neco, co by se melo podrobit dalsimu
            zkoumani<br>
            (Jindro, mozna Jakube ..).<br>
            <br>
            &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Mejte se
            a zdravim,<br>
            Vojtech Svoboda<br>
            <br>
            <br>
            <br>
            <br>
            <br>
            _______________________________________________<br>
            Tokamak mailing list<br>
            <a href=3D"mailto:Tokamak@golem.fjfi.cvut.cz" target=3D"_blank"=
>Tokamak@golem.fjfi.cvut.cz</a><br>
            <a href=3D"http://golem.fjfi.cvut.cz/mailman/listinfo/tokamak" =
target=3D"_blank">http://golem.fjfi.cvut.cz/mailman/listinfo/tokamak</a><br=
>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
        <br>
        <br clear=3D"all">
        <div><br>
        </div>
        -- <br>
        <div>Tomas</div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </div></div></div>

</blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div>Tomas</=
div>
</div>

--001a11c3b2c0019c6604fcbc88a8--